shogi
FICGS - Search results for shogi
There are 33 results for shogi in the forum.
Thibault de Vassal (2006-09-06 17:08:56)
Other games on FICGS ?
Hello to all.
Just wondering... after Chess, Chess 960, Go and Big Chess (soon available, as the graphical interface works better now) what other games you'd like to see here in the future ?
FICGS is firstly a correspondence chess server, without any doubt, but that's great to see chess players discovering Go game this way.
I have been told about Chinese Chess (Xiangqi), Shogi, Blokus.. Maybe not Draughts, as it is a solved game now.
Any ideas ?
Mladen Jankovic (2006-09-07 17:26:38)
Seen Shogi, sounds interesting
I've seen Shogi before, but i didn't play more than few moves. Shogi is actualy a family of variants, board sizes range from 4*5, to 36*36. I had a program once that handled a number of variants (I probably still have it somewhere).
I read something about the Chinese Chess, it sounds interesting, the computers have not realy mastered it yet, and it seems somewhat slower than the regular Chess.
I'm not realy sure how one can play corespondence Backgammon (I prefer Tavli).
Lionel Vidal (2006-09-08 16:58:11)
ChuShogi would get my vote.
ChuShogi is by far my favorite chess-like game: as deep as Go strategically, more profound than chess tactically (at least on par with big chess) and great fun to play. Like Go a very elaborate handicap system does exist.
Its main drawback is that, just like go, you have to invest some time to learn it to fully appreciate the game: chess, xianqi or even shogi are maybe more immediately grasped by beginners while in ChuShogi or in Go, it may take a few games (or more likely many games) before you realise what you should strive to do or not to do, and what that &#@@# game is all about :-)
Lionel Vidal (2006-09-09 10:40:13)
arimaa ?!
Arimaa may be a good choice too: it may be played on a chessboard, it is deep, fun and invented precisely to make any computer ridiculous :-) (Just like with Go and ChuShogi it is a very satisfying ego-boost-experience to feel vastly superior once in a while to even the best silicon brains :-))
And another point is that I don't know any site where you could play correpondence arimaa with a server. (whereas you can play Go or Chusogi at pbem server for instance... with even a graphical interface but not as comfortable as FICGS!)
Oh but wait... if you add a game, you'll have to change the name FICGS ? :-)
Lionel Vidal (2006-11-20 21:57:03)
Go handicap and rating
Is handicap Go really nonsensical in rated tournaments?
While it seems so in a world championship, where the aim is to determine the stronger player in an absolute sense, why should it be so in a tournament, where the aim is to determine the best player in a relative sense... hum, not a very clean or clear sentence, but I hope you got the idea :-)
In face to face Go, in most amateur tournaments, it is not a problem, and you can win or loose a tournament, win or loose points, playing with an handicap (some tournaments set a limit lower than 9 in the number of handicap stones). I do not know the formulae used to compute the knew ratings, but in practice it works well. (and the same thing works also in Shogi tournaments)
Before WWII, even pros played with handicap (one or two stones at most, more commonly with a fixed color and no komi) and that *for money*!! Nowadays this is not the case anymore: maybe the increase of pro-tournament prizes change the noble way to be the best of two players fighting *their best* at their *respective* level!
Anyway, I think such an idea may be interresting to motivate players: when weaker, I will fight my best because I have a chance to win, and when stronger, I *have* to fight well :-)
We could think of a rating system where you play your first, say, 20 games without handicap to get a starting rating, and then to receive or give handicaps automatically in tournaments. We could then consider a rating as fixed after a bunch of 20 more games...
Or any other system that will always generate tense and dangerous games! That will be, at least for me, a great motivation to play more :-)
(but then I do not care much for my rating :-))
Thibault de Vassal (2011-07-13 22:48:01)
Shogi in ficgs?
Hello Pablo!
Here is a discussion we've had in the past on that topic, please tell me what you think:
http://www.ficgs.com/user_page.php?page=forum_read&id=4538
Pablo Schmid (2011-07-13 23:01:37)
Shogi in ficgs?
Thanks for the link, but I think there is no real conclusion. Chinese chess and Japanese are really "classical" boards games that are quite related to chess, maybe it's not a bad idea to include these games, with the hope to get more asian players for example. If you are not convinced by that idea we could do a poll in this site for the inclusion of shogi, chinese chess, both or none?
Lionel Vidal (2007-03-27 19:42:35)
Xiangqi
The fact that xiangqi is the most played game in china (much more played than Go!) is enough to make it the most played game in the world :-)
But apart from asian countries, you can find many players in the USA, and even in France, where the 2005 world championship was held!
Computers are quite good at xiangqi (the best program is french!) but not good enough yet for the very best players: the game-tree complexity of xiangqi is half way between chess and shogi, but the evaluation functions in xiangqi have specific problems (roughly speaking, the relative values of the pieces evolve much more than in chess during a game). Anyway I agree than in a few years, humans will probably loose in tournament time.
Thibault de Vassal (2007-11-02 20:55:37)
Videogames & the future of Board Games
Quite funny to see the same discussion on GoDiscussions.com and ChessDiscussion.com forums :
http://www.chessdiscussion.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=457
http://www.godiscussions.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4644
<<
Apparently, two years ago there was a major exhibition sponsored by the Asia Society in American museums called "Asian Games: The Art of Contest." I have been fortunate enough to get a copy of the exhibition book. I found a quote there that I would like you to comment on:
“We hope that this exhibition, in addition to persuading visitors of the historical importance of games, will also stimulate an interest in playing board games. As computer gamers sit in solitary oblivion frantically pressing buttons to manipulate images on screens, it is worth considering how such games could have succeeded, to a large extent, in eclipsing real board games. The answer may be that they have appropriated much of the best of traditional board games. But it is also worth pointing out that the appeal of most electronic games is ephemeral. Ask a teenager if he still plays the same game he played two years ago, and the answer will inevitably be no. We can predict with confidence that twenty years from now, of the electronic games currently in fashion, it is only those versions of classic board games—chess, weiqi/go and perhaps backgammon—that will still enjoy widespread popularity.
Does the future of chess, weiqi and backgammon, then, lie solely in electronic media? We hope not. However convenient it may be to play chess or weiqi on the internet, nothing can replace the face-to-face social interaction of real games playing—and indeed the attraction of such games as spectacle. It is no coincidence that there is a trend now among jaded electronic games players to return to board games. This renewed interest undoubtedly reflects the need to compete with a real (as opposed to real-time) person. But there may be another reason for this development. The physical satisfaction of holding a well-crafted gaming piece or die, or of hearing the sonorous click of the pieces as they are placed on the board, does not exist in an electronic universe. No culture better understood the aesthetics of games than the Japanese, whose go, sugoroku, and shogi boards were not only objects of exquisite beauty, but were also designed to enhance the sound of piece struck against board. If, in addition to stimulating more research on Asian games, this exhibition prompts some of its visitors to take up chess, xiangqi, or weiqi—or even better, to work out the rules of liubo—then we will be entirely satisfied.”
Colin Mackenzie and Irving Finkel, “Preface”, Asian Games: The Art of Contest (Asia Society), p. 17
>>
Interesting !
Thibault de Vassal (2008-01-25 16:29:52)
Chinese Chess, Shogi ...
Hi Christophe... Of course it has been discussed here already. Well, it is technically possible, but it is not technically possible before a few months :)
The real question is : Do you want FICGS to be a multi-games site or mainly a chess place ? .. I've included Go (weiqi) because this game is really different and interesting, I'm not sure yet about the others and "A few is better than too many" IMO (what a quote) :)
Hannes Rada (2008-01-28 18:58:35)
Chess, Chinese Chess, Go
Thibault, have you ever tried Chinese Chess ?
I've a book about the rules with some games, but I do not have a board.
Maybe there is somewhere a Chinese Chess pgrogramm for free download.
What do you like more Chess or Go ?
Some years ago I tried to study Go, visited a Go Club. I tried to play a few games but did not realy realize what's going on. I was even not in the position to find out if my position is better or worse :-).
Shogi - Japanese Chess, and Korean Chess, many chess variants and board games ....
Julien Coll (2008-02-02 01:47:00)
can great board game classics...
...like Shôgi and Xiangqi be too many? ;) Shôgi is also a fun, exciting and very different game comparing with the two others ;-) .
I've seen only a few people playing to shôgi and xiangqi (I've tried the two games... and prefer Shôgi :) ) in kurnik (15 persons maxi)... but that was a couple of months ago :)
Bye :)
Thibault de Vassal (2008-02-03 22:36:45)
Xiangqi
Only 15 Xiangqi & Shogi players in Kurnik ?! .. so is there a big internet club for these games ?
Julien Coll (2008-02-04 08:11:23)
hello :)
I mean: 15 people maxi for each game, each time I connected -that's not enormous anyway... :) some months ago some members of the the ASA (the french shôgi association) used to meet all monday evenings in Kurnik -I don't know if they continue doing it again.
If you're able to understand chinese, korean, japanese, etc... perhaps you'll find plenty of very good internet clubs devoted to these games :o)
There is a shogi club called ISC, but I don't know if it is active.
about shogi and servers: a good server for OTB play is Shogidojo... but the level is quite hard for beginners.
there are other sites for differed play (ex. in Brainking you can play to the two games).
Thibault de Vassal (2008-06-02 21:44:21)
Poll : Texas hold'em Poker at FICGS ?
Hi all,
Still thinking about adding other games at FICGS. Of course, Xiangqi and Shogi are good candidates, a popular one (I quite like) would be poker texas hold'em. What do you think about such a [chancy] game played for fun at a correspondence time control at FICGS ?!
All opinions or advices are welcome.
William Taylor (2008-06-04 23:09:47)
Don't like the idea
My initial reaction is that I don't like the idea. Whilst I do enjoy playing poker, I think it would be out of place here. As others have pointed out, there's a lot of luck involved, and (so far anyway) this website is for skill-based abstract strategy games. I also think it would be unsuited to a correspondence time control. Shogi or xiang-qi on the other hand... I'm in favour of introducing them.
Samy Ould Ahmed (2009-04-14 15:57:14)
Shogi & Xiangqi
Hi Thibault,
what do you think about introducing here Shogi and Xiangqi ?
Thibault de Vassal (2009-04-14 17:19:23)
Shogi & Xiangqi
Hi Samy, I'm not so opposed to introduce these interesting games here but there are no players enough yet to envisage it, that's the main point IMO (then if I remember well computers are stronger than the best players already). We'll probably discuss it again in a while.
Thibault de Vassal (2009-06-05 13:13:41)
"reformed chess", "improved chess"
Speaking of rook endings, of course some -maybe most- are dead or at least understood positions, some are very complex for the human brain... I don't think chess is so unfair even with 2 pawns more, every good player has to know the endgames theory, that's the most important part of the game IMO (at least when learning), such draws only show that one didn't manage to complexify the game enough.
Nice ideas in these links Hannes, and there are many others even without changing the way the pieces move (e.g. time handicap..) but it is harder in correspondence chess. Actually we may regret that chess is chess in this current version. As chess rules are everything but "natural", it could have been different, maybe it should have been. It is too late to change anything now because most people want to play the same game than Fischer and Spassky :) .. History prevails, even very intelligent recent games like Blokus will never be the king of the game.
By the way does anyone know about the drawish problem in Xiangqi and Shogi ?
Lazaro Munoz (2009-10-26 11:15:01)
Crazyhouse
You would need some special rules to prevent long boring clock time out waits, such as when one side is mated on the move. He will sit out and wait for the events on the other game. Typically what happens is that it will be mate on the move in the reverse direction. So either have adjudicated a win for the side with more time on their running clock or force them to move at least every 10 days say.
By the way if you try crazy house, you might want to also introduce shogi where pieces become the property of the opponent and can be dropped in. You won't need special char set since you can use the chess set with mods such as inverting them like the rook for the lance, golds can be queen, silvers inverted queens, etc and promoted pieces, the piece with a circle surrounding it.
William Taylor (2009-10-26 13:58:56)
Crazyhouse
Lazaro:
1. I think you are confusing crazyhouse and bughouse. Crazyhouse is a 1-player game and so wouldn't have the problem you described.
2. Shogi - I might play shogi if it was introduced here, but I would certainly want proper shogi pieces, not chess pieces.
3. The original question - I enjoy crazyhouse, but wouldn't play it here at the moment as I'm too busy to start more time-consuming correspondence games. I'm also not sure if I'd enjoy it as much at correspondence time controls.
Don Groves (2009-10-27 06:16:48)
Shogi
I would learn a classical game like Shogi if it were offered on FICGS
Pablo Schmid (2011-07-12 14:47:32)
Shogi in ficgs?
Hello Thibault and everybody, there is poker, and go, an asian strategic game in ficgs already. I think Shogi, (japanese chess) might be very fun here, this is rather misknown for occidental people and there is not many place where we can play that game. The game is very fun to play and complicated as well! Usually Kanji, japanese symbols are used instead of "pieces" but it exists "occidental symbols" that represents pieces, maybe we could try it with 2 interface possible, with pieces or with kanji like in playok.com
What do you think?
Don Groves (2011-07-13 08:36:20)
Shogi in ficgs?
I will second that idea.
Thibault de Vassal (2011-07-13 23:27:51)
Shogi in ficgs?
Sure, all players are invited to give their opinion on this point, I'm not really convinced by the idea for the same old reasons (too many similar games kill the games) but I'm always able to change my mind :)
Jay Melquiades (2012-10-28 01:51:02)
online place to play shogi
shogi???
Don Groves (2012-10-28 08:36:02)
online place to play
Huh? I just googled "shogi online" and got several results.
Thibault de Vassal (2017-12-07 16:44:05)
AlphaZero stronger than Stockfish
It looks like there's no more month without news from Google Deepmind... This time again, this is quite stunning!
AlphaZero would have been able to beat (crush) the most recent version of Stockfish, that is also the world champion program and of course the free engine well known by correspondence chess players.
But most important is that actually AlphaZero would have outperformed Stockfish after only 4 hours of training (if I understood well), while it took 8 hours to outperform AlphaGo Lee and only 120 minutes to outperform Elmo at Shogi! However it seems much much harder for the neural program to improve at chess after this stunningly fast auto-learning.
100 games played (25 wins & 25 draws with white! 3 wins with black... no loss, either with white or black, which is an incredible performance)
All details available (must read) here:
https://arxiv.org/pdf/1712.01815.pdf
http://www.sciencealert.com/it-took-4-hours-google-s-ai-world-s-best-chess-player-deepmind-alphazero
A few games played by AlphaZero against Stockfish are included in the arxiv article.
Ilmars Cirulis (2017-12-08 21:23:22)
AlphaZero stronger than Stockfish
There will be some more matches, I hope. I expect that at least some criticism about settings and machine of chess engine will be heard.
Also more serious paper about AlphaZero (chess/shogi/go) will be publised.
And then Deepmind are going to leave chess in the past, in the same way as it did with go. At the best, it will be used for testing some of next research ideas, and we will get few more games to look at.
And then it will make a superhuman Starcraft player, then maybe some AI that can do math research like the humans do (I would like to live so far :D), then maybe computer will learn languages properly... :)
Chess is just random checkpoint for Deepmind. We will have to make our own AlphaZero to play with, anyway. :)
Thibault de Vassal (2018-04-07 03:09:02)
Harold Moye, man of arts... and chess
I'm very sad to announce here that we just lost a chess friend, Harold Moye, who played chess with us while he was involved in a much more difficult battle. My condolences to his family.
Here is the first part of the obituary:
"Harold Anthony Moye, age 62, died on March 4, 2018, wife Linda (Polhemus) Moye at his side. They were devoted to each other for 17 years since vowing their love on a mountain in Wyoming. For 13 of those years, Harold endured bone marrow cancer (Multiple Myeloma) with grace, unusual resilience, and quiet courage.
He loved poetry, languages, art, music, history, philosophy, astronomy, cinema, flying airplanes (actually and with flight simulator) and coffee. Some of his favorites were Shelley, Blake, Rilke, Shakespeare, Norse sagas, VanGogh, Mahler, Bach, Beethoven, and Sumatran and Guatemalan beans. Harold said that Blake taught him the most about art; Shelley was his brother; VanGogh his first cousin; and coffee a major food group (along with pizza and cookies). Above all, he valued imagination, compassion, and generosity of spirit in others. He played Shogi and Chess with friends all over the world online and in person, reaching the distinction of Chess Master when he coordinated tournaments in Wyoming. (...)"
http://www.ficgs.com/moye_harold.htm
Thibault de Vassal (2018-06-30 20:22:16)
Interview with 15th chess WCH finalist
For once, as Eros & I couldn't find much more to say after all his consecutive wins, I asked Ramil Germanes these few questions around his match & correspondence chess (with what may look like a quite surprising conclusion).
_______________________
- Hello Ramil, many thanks for answering those few questions! This is a first time with the WCH finalist, as the winner (Eros again) agreeded this could be an interesting experiment for a change, so we'll probably have a quite different point of view this time! You just finished your games to score 6-6 (12 draws), Eros retaining the title again. I guess this was the first time you played such a correspondence chess match, what are your impressions on this knockout format?
Yes this is the first time I've played a world championship match although I played before in earlier editions of this world championship but not reaching the challenger level. My impression? Its great playing for the world championship but I know its nearly impossible to beat the world champion.
- Let's rewind a few months backward, would you make other choices, in openings or anything?
I don't know. Tbh, I'm not very good on chess theory and not very updated as well. So I'm just playing basic moves hoping for opportunities to come up.
- So, is Eros beatable in this final match according to you? (please give us some hope) ^^
With how quickly you can search information and the strength of chess engines nowadays, its almost impossible to beat him unless you have access to alpha zero (haha). Though maybe Herbert Kruse can pull it off.
- What can you tell us about yourself and your relation to chess & correspondence chess?
I'm just an ordinary guy from the Philipines who happens to love playing chess. But my love of computers is what brought me to correspondence chess and to ficgs.
- Do you play other games, e.g. Go, Shogi, cards games?
No I don't know how to play those games.
- Could you tell us how these 12 games went from your own point of view?
For me, the games went through their normal course. Both of us didn't made any major mistakes so all games were drawn. That's just how it went. Though there were new moves on some the games it doesn't really changes result of the older games played before.
- Would you share a few tips to play good correspondence chess in 2018, or at least to beat the best chess engines? :)
Sorry but i dont know. I will be the new world champion by now if i know, hehehe.
- You told me that your computer configuration was basically a quad-core i5 3570 / 4gb on Fritz GUI (about 10,500 kn/s) / Windows 10, and we know that many of us (Eros included) still use such configs or even dual-core, would an octa-core have brought a significant advantage to you to win this match according to you?
Oh I don't know they still have those configurations. But I've already encountered opponents in Infinity Chess with 18-22 cores configs. Anyways, an octa-core or faster cpu would definitely be going to speed up my analysis and will let me analyze more lines and variations which may improves my overall play.
Honestly, I don't have that much time these days for correspondence chess. In my match against Eros, I had only about 1 hour of analysis time before work and about another 1 hour after work. Since I already have a family and 2 kids, they have to be my priority first. And I think somebody also can relate to this. So a faster cpu would be very helpful in the match and maybe will give a better chance than a slower cpu.
- As far as I know, you love to build computers, did you use or think about using several ones at the same time for analysis?
No. I only used one computer in my match against Eros. I have 2 other computers but both are slower.
- How much time you've been playing correspondence chess & how do you feel the way the game changed over the years?
I've been playing correspondence chess since 2010 and I have observed that its easier to win games in the past when chess engines were still weaker. Because you notice some players depend only on engine moves and engines still commit mistakes and you can exploit those mistakes if you "investigate" further.
Unlike now, engines are very strong that even players who rely solely on engines moves will be very hard to beat. It lessens the gap of players that know how to "use" the engines and the ones who do not.
- Finally, what makes you love correspondence chess in 2018?
I will always love chess and correspondence chess but what makes it exciting now is the rise of the new kind of engines.
Engines like Leela chess zero that has a different approach in playing chess. Maybe more of these kind of chess engines will be seen in the future. Because of its use of monte carlo analysis and neural networks, we are starting to see moves that we have never seen before. Very aggressive attacks and moves defying opening principles can now be seen. Correspondence chess is getting exciting again!
Thibault de Vassal (2018-12-07 02:36:32)
AlphaZero 2.0
And of course the article on the Deepmind's website:
https://deepmind.com/blog/alphazero-shedding-new-light-grand-games-chess-shogi-and-go/
Ilmars Cirulis (2024-03-27 17:33:03)
Big Chess in NebiyuAlien engine
it came with this: http://hgm.nubati.net/miniShogi.html
<< This package includes NebiyuAlien, wich is configurable for almost any Chess-like game through its alien.ini file. >>
There are 0 results for shogi in wikichess.
FICGS : shogi , Wikipedia : shogi , Dmoz : shogi , Google : shogi , Yahoo : shogi
When you absolutely don't know what to do anymore, it is time to panic. (John van der Wiel)
Fischer is completely natural. He plays no roles. He's like a child. Very, very simple. (Zita Rajcsanyi)
Your body has to be in top condition. Your Chess deteriorates as your body does. You can't separate body from mind. (Bobby Fischer)
Back to FICGS , Wikichess