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Jimmy Huggins    (2010-10-22)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

Hi to all the FICGS players! In the last few days there has been in the works a strong tournament on the Rybka Forum. I know that most of you play a lot of games not only here but on others sites. I have been looking into the interest of having a type of World Chess Corr Blitz Championship. With the time controls being 2 to 3 days per move. There will be a time out or some kind of extra time system in place to get you a chance to AN critical positions. As of now there are discussions on the Rybka Forum for a Tournament Format that would be comfort to most of the players who play. I have been talking to the person who does the web design there and would are working out a new sub forum to keep this tournament organized and working a clock system so everyone can keep track of there time. I'm also having a prize fund organized to the top 10 finishers. Not so much for give money to the players, but as more a means to keep all the players interested and not have any problems with aborted games. This tournament will have 3 TD's to help with any problems that may come up. We are planing on having the tournament just after the new year. I have the interested of Wayne Lowrance and Ruben Comes has said he will play. If any are interested in playing in a World Chess Corr. Blitz Championship or if you have any questions or comments. Let know on here or your can leave a message on the rybka forum my user name is "thehug"

Jimmy Huggins    (2010-10-22 11:13:09)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

Now I have the interest of Harvey Williamson

Garvin Gray    (2010-10-22 16:59:29)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

You now have interest of Garvin Gray :)

Daniel Parmet    (2010-10-22 19:44:39)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

I'm interested.

Jimmy Huggins    (2010-10-22 20:56:57)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum


Gary- Thanks for your interest, I do remember to some of your replies to the FICGS vs Rybka Forum match. As you are a guy who likes some order in the matches. When I make the the pairings for the tournament I will be taking into account of ratings. And will make them fair. There are a couple of people who may not have official rating on the rybka forum, but I have a good idea of there strength :) One of them is actually playing reben a great game in the B90 a variation.

Daniel Parmet- Thanks for your interest I have you down.

Daniel Parmet    (2010-10-22 21:16:49)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

When would this start and how many games/rounds?

Jimmy Huggins    (2010-10-23 02:39:34)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

Just after the new year, It will be flexiable as I will give all the players a chance to make it the games. It will be something like a 1 to 1 1/2 week window to get all the players sign in and know what the groups would be. As of now I'm still working on how many games will be played. I will be caping it around 30 people or so give or take a couple. So I will update you on how many games. For rounds Im going to say right now it will 2 rounds as I know most don't want to drag it out to long.(If there is interested I will look into having a semi final, and championship match if people would want it.) The number of games will be flexiable for the FICGS players. As I know most of you have a lot games going on.

Sebastian Boehme    (2010-10-23 02:41:41)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

I would be interested in playing, in case such details as time control (especially how this shall get done on a forum software like Rybka forum, i.e. keeping track of the time used up for a move) and tournament mode are clarified in beforehand.



Jimmy Huggins    (2010-10-23 04:04:54)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

Thanks for your interest Sebi. This is being talked about now. I will send you a link. this will be the post for the discussion about time contorl

As we speak Dadi Jonsson the person who works on the forum. Is working on the details for a clock system. Not only that but we are going to make it a sub forum by itself so people can find there games easier. Let me know your opinion on here as we are working out all the details so it will be comfortable to all. I will being submitting the 1st proposal shortly. Thanks for your interested!


Jimmy Huggins    (2010-10-23 23:57:41)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

I have the interest of Gino Figlio and a couple of other strong FICGS players Im still trying to find out witch ones they are. The FICGS side is starting to look very strong if all players will play. The tournament format is coming a long. And when I have an update I will post.

Wayne Lowrance    (2010-10-24 22:57:48)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

Jimmy I am following your progress. I continue my interest in the Tournament. We have discussed my thoughts via PM, but to review here are the things of concern to me. First I do not want to overload my chess obligations in Tournaments I am involved with at FICGS now. I have a hunch that a Start date at or shortly after the year will work out provided it is possible to have no more than one (1) game running at a time.
Other features of interest to a lesser degree are management/monitoring of matches to make sure that excessive time outs are infrequent. A player should not be allowed to go on vacation so to speak during a match. In the event of hardware problems a player should have to live with the timer obligations and not making a unfair match delay.
Player ratings could be considered in pairings. Somewhat like board seeds. Top rated sits at board #1 etc.
I think this can be sorted out easily. Your have excellent inputs from others such as Vytron etc regarding timer details. 2 days/move sounds good to me Jimmy.
So continue your good work, I would be proud to participate god willing.

Jimmy Huggins    (2010-10-25 01:30:27)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

Thanks for your continue interested Wayne! Yeah as of now. I think we are doing a two game per round(1 white and 1 black) set. And I think there are players who will being playing a one game at time approach. And to help with the time difference we are working on a quicker format to help offset the time difference. I still believe that Havery Williamson will still consider playing if the gameload is not that great. Even if he still declines I think with yourself I have 3 or 4 players that are inside the top 25 on this site. I'm hopeful that devassal thibault can help me get the word to the other top players in a effort to get a couple more of the top 50. It will help when I finally can have a 100% idea of the format. I'll you posted on here or on the Rybka Forum. When we finally have more or all the details worked out.

Thibault de Vassal    (2010-10-25 02:42:33)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

Hello Jimmy! Sure, I keep an eye on the discussions... I may spread the word when all this will be a little clearer to me (maybe I'll consider to play if I'm not too busy and if the tournament is open btw, will it be a round-robin tourney? what happens if you have too many players?) Feel free to use the chat before that though.

Jimmy Huggins    (2010-10-25 08:28:18)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

Thanks Thibault, My hope is to finish the details within the next 2 weeks. No not a round-robin, because that would simply be to much and to long. So I have gone with Vytron idea of a type of Elimination/Knockout tournament that is currently being discuss. As you are good about getting tournaments formed if you can read the current discussion and give some feedback on here or the rybka forum I would be grateful! It is in the corr chess section on the rybka forum.

Here are some of the key points and some interesting ideas that are being thrown around.

As I know most of the FICGS players play a lot of games so I have made a system that you play a 2 game match per round (One white and One Black). This would usually be a bad idea because of CC high draw rates. But we are thinking of using a unique draw odds system. Thought to many this may sounds a little strange its actually a great idea to inspire fighting chess for both sides. The idea was given by FICGS player Gino Figlio

"The scoring system idea- to draw with white (0.4), draw with black (0.6), win with white (1.0), win with black (1.1), loss with white (-0.1), loss with black (0.0)"

Another thing we are working on is the pairing system. As of now the only idea is to use a swiss pairing system after the first round.

Time Control- Since this is going to be called a "World Blitz Correspondence Chess Championship" The time controls are going to be a little faster than normal corr chess. It will be 48hr per move. But there will be a bluff time in here to help AN critical positions. This is also being debated. Right now we are looking at something between 1 weeks to 2 weeks(168 hours to 336 hours).

I had announce on the Rybka Forum in the last couple of days that a prize fund was being offer. I haven't had all my sources comeback to me yet. But as of know the fund is $1500 USD. It could be more, but I'll make official amount known before the tournament will start. I would say the winners share will be between 500 to 750. It all depends on what info I get back. I'm going to try and make all the prizes reasonable. And try and make it for the top 8 or 10 players. Also the winner will be announced the "World Blitz Correspondence Chess Champion"

I will be trying to finalize the details of the tournament in a quick fashion so I can figure out if the players interested would want to play or not. The tournament will begin just after the new year. It will be flexiable so get all the players in and know who they are playing.

The final details are that we are working hard to make the Rybka Forum really to play this kind of tournament. There is a new sub forum that will be made to help with out the traffic that would be going on with all the games. There is almost plans on getting a clock system work out. As at these time controls that would be critical.

Thanks in advance for any feedback form Thibault de Vassal and any other FICGS player!


Scott Nichols    (2010-10-25 21:07:25)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

Hi Jimmy, I left a message on your forum. That format very new to me, :)

Thibault de Vassal    (2010-10-25 21:16:09)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

Well, I still do not understand how a scoring system can exist in a knockout tournament... but let's take an example, what the tournament will look like if you have 16 players? Best is to do a complete simulation.

As I just posted on Rybkaforum, I suggest several double round-robin class tournaments of 5 players with a longer time control (on forums I suggest 10 days + 3 days per move). The whole tournament would be played in 1 round, with less stress for everyone as I really think that 30 days + 1 day/move is the fastest acceptable correspondence chess time control.

Tano-Urayoan Russi Roman    (2010-10-25 23:43:59)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

I also do not understand scoring system, most probably both games will end in draw, is there a talk about an even faster time control for tiebreakers?

Gino Figlio    (2010-10-26 00:55:48)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

The proposal was based on the assumption that it was a double elimination knockout, meaning you get dropped if you lose 2 games. Since there may be a lot of draws, the new scoring system may allow to drop players with the lower scores after 2 rounds and will give more weight to better results with the black pieces. This is experimental but may stimulate more fighting chess.

Daniel Parmet    (2010-10-26 01:04:19)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

Wait what? You are going to drop a player that drew 2 games because they might be rated 1 pt lower? Insanity. What horrible logic.

Gino Figlio    (2010-10-26 01:08:19)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

Where did you read that?

Daniel Parmet    (2010-10-26 01:10:12)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

oh my apologies I thought it said lower rating not lower score. You'd be surprised some people are in favor of such crazy ideas.

Gino Figlio    (2010-10-26 01:17:26)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

not a problem, I'm known for my crazy proposals :)

Peter Marriott    (2010-10-26 03:00:51)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

I'm in.

Scott Nichols    (2010-10-26 05:33:11)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

I very much like the idea of giving more weight to Black, whether it is a win or draw. I agree it will make for fighting chess and possibly make White (or Black) try some different variations to go for the win.

Garvin Gray    (2010-10-26 18:53:19)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

I am not a fan of the Double Elimination concept for this. Does not mean that I would not participate. But since DE is being used, why not just have it as an open swiss instead?

With an open swiss, those that do not want to continue can just withdraw, instead of being eliminated. Those that want to finish the tournament can keep playing all rounds to enjoy the experience.

A couple of issues with DE that need to be explained further:
1) After round one, are the first round losers seeded to the other half of the draw so they can not meet their first round opponents again till the preliminary final.
2) For the person who gets to the Grand Final without losing a match, do they stil have to be beaten twice to be eliminated ie the winner of the preliminary final has to beat them twice to win the competition.

I have wondered how long an open swiss would actually take in competition like this and would prefer to play in that rather than a DE.

Thibault de Vassal    (2010-10-26 19:27:17)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

An open swiss should be at least 6 rounds long, that's the main problem. I still don't get how this tournament may run, a complete simulation with 16 players would help me, definitely.

Garvin Gray    (2010-10-26 19:37:21)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

TDV- An open swiss would take just as long as a DE.

In regards to your comment about not understanding how this tournament will be run, are you asking about the concept of double elimination formats as a general idea, or you do understand about DE formats and are wanting more information about this tournament specifically?

Jimmy Huggins    (2010-10-26 19:38:21)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

Thanks to Thibault, who has what given his input into the tournament. As to the last two replies. The tournament format is an on going process. But I think the time control that has been stated by myself in just the last few hours. Is pretty reasonable to have a blitz control. 25 days per side + 10 days after move 40. That would be 60 days total. So that would be within 2 months. To be honest even if you see the games I post on there. You see even if you don't have serious tournament conditions all games were very close to finishing within 30 to 60 days.

Jimmy Huggins    (2010-10-26 19:44:18)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

Two more quick announcements.

1.The new forum for the WBCCC-->World Blitz Corr Chess Championship has been made as of last night my time. But has not been up to everyone yet. It will be soon, I'm still talking to my Technical TD about that.

2.I'll be capping the tournament very soon as to keep the numbers reasonable and to have a tournament done in a more timely fashion. I'm going to guess when its all said and done. The finally number will be between 24 to 28 players that will play. I'll being posting a list here shortly

Jimmy Huggins    (2010-10-26 20:11:52)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

The players that have said they would play or are interested are as follows


Wayne Lowrance
Garvin Gray
Daniel Parmet
Sebastian Boehme
Thibault de Vassal
Gino Figlio
Kevin Plant
Scott Nichols
and one guy called "Djevans" on my forum still trying to get a name. He has said that he is a FICGS__CHESS__FREESTYLE_CUP winner and twice finalist in the freestyle tours on chessbase. So a pretty strong player.

Wayne Lowrance    (2010-10-26 21:03:53)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

Yes I have committed to Jimmy, I am in

Thibault de Vassal    (2010-10-26 21:29:20)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

"Djevans" is David Evans, he won the FICGS__CHESS__FREESTYLE_CUP__000002

Peter Marriott    (2010-10-27 00:01:33)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

Hey Jimmy! I would like to play.

Thibault de Vassal    (2010-10-27 01:07:49)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

Ooooook... just read this interesting article on double elimination "knockout":

I must admit I did not hear about this one before, very interesting idea even if it looks quite unnatural (I mean not "beautiful") to me and longer than the usual knockout. Anyway IMO it is probably too long for a correspondence chess tournament.

Garvin Gray    (2010-10-27 03:10:37)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

Now Thib sees why 6 or so round swiss would not be any longer than Double Elimination :)

Also with the DE format, the player from the winner's side has to wait a full round while the two remaining losers play their preliminary final two games.

In regards to tie breaks from second round onwards, the person who has the better score from previous rounds could have draw odds.

To explain- lets say in round one Player A wins 2-0 and Player B wins 1.5-0.5. In round two Player A and B meet. In this scenario Player A would advance if their match was drawn.

This method of tie break would count no matter what round it was. So in the Grand Final, who ever had scored the most amount of points previously would have draw odds.

Kamesh Nookala    (2010-10-27 03:22:31)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

Where am i? :-p

Jimmy Huggins    (2010-10-27 03:34:59)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

Sorry Kamesh, I didn't know if you was really to play mores games or not after reading your email. I'll put you on the list now.

Also sorry to Peter Marriot who I have on the official list on Rybka Forum :)

Kamesh Nookala    (2010-10-27 03:38:48)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

Lol Jimmy,

It was more like "I am lost!" haha. AS of now, i have stopped all stuff. Just enjoying. But as your tour is scheduled somewhere in the new year, who knows I may jump in.
As of now, banging my head as to whether I should check IN into the current FICGS Freestyle or not :)


Garvin Gray    (2010-10-27 04:13:32)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

Kamesh, stop banging your head and enter the freestyle comp.

Kamesh Nookala    (2010-10-27 04:22:51)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

lol Gray,

i might :-o (still banging) :-p

Jimmy Huggins    (2010-10-27 04:37:36)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

Well Kamesh, the game load is going to be pretty low. I won't pull your leg or anything :) lol

Kamesh Nookala    (2010-10-27 04:38:22)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum


Sebastian Boehme    (2010-10-27 04:42:52)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

I wonder whether Eros and Alberto will join this.
Might be there will soon be more interesting participants!

Jimmy Huggins    (2010-10-27 04:58:50)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

I would love to get these two great players to play! It would be helpful that the tournament conditions be clarified. With the kind of money that could be on the line. It maybe of interest to them. But I don't think that would be the most important thing to them. I know Eros has account on the Rybka Forum, but I haven't hear form him on there so I don't know.

Scott Nichols    (2010-10-27 05:17:18)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

May I ask who may we thank for putting up the prize fund?

Daniel Parmet    (2010-10-27 05:21:09)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

what is the prize fund?

Jimmy Huggins    (2010-10-27 05:53:42)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

@Scott-Myself and a couple of other friends who love chess. By the way I send you a message on the Rybka Forum to help with game details. If you have other questions let me.

@Daniel- Right now I its 1500 USD total, but I don't have all my sources bact to me yet. So it will probably be more. I'm planing on having prizes down to 8 to 10 players, with the winner most likely will win 500 to 750 depending on final numbers. Also the winner will the World Blitz Corr Chess Championship or so I dubbed.

Kamesh Nookala    (2010-10-27 06:16:34)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

Who is Eros? I don't care about names when it comes to strong chess. What I see is blood on board and fear in my opponent's eyes. May be with IDEA technology, I may have to think again :)
But, come what may, I am prepared
Oh forgot (baning my head again)
And also btw, to whom it is intended ............. :-o

Kamesh Nookala    (2010-10-27 06:24:22)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum


Jimmy Huggins    (2010-10-27 06:28:36)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

Well Kamesh, maybe playing on the Rybka Forum has brought you luck :), BTW interesting game between you and Vytron

Kamesh Nookala    (2010-10-27 06:35:12)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

Well not really.

I am sorry if am being candid in stating that my first access to corr world is FICGS. It created the best impression which even ICCF could not. I am confident that your efforts will bring a great change to the rybkaforum. Keep the spirits high my friend, come what may :)

As far as my game vs Vytron, I am not sure where it is leading me

Garvin Gray    (2010-10-27 06:37:02)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

The games could always be played on ficgs :)

Jimmy Huggins    (2010-10-27 06:48:42)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

Not at all my friend, Kamesh. I was joining you with humor. I can understand the feeling of playing in your first place like this.

@Garvin- With all the efforts to play it on Rybka Forum I don't know if I could change it. If the tournament is successful I may consider playing the next one on here. Of course I would have to talk to Thibault about that.

Kamesh Nookala    (2010-10-27 06:53:20)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

I just expressed my opinion Jimmy. You are trying to organize a major event. Am commending ur efforts. Keep pushing. Especially, am flattered when ya said ya and few others wud be sponsoring the prize fund. Who does that? So, ya too made ur impression.
All the best Jimmy, go go go go ....

Scott Nichols    (2010-10-27 19:47:48)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

Thibault is also offering a generous prize for freestyle tournament this weekend. We would welcome any Rybka forum players to come and compete!

Kamesh Nookala    (2010-10-27 20:15:05)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

I will only play to win if the prize is an EVGA SR-2 mobo and 2 Xeon processors :-p

Jimmy Huggins    (2010-10-27 22:24:14)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

Tho this is only a minor note the new forum was made and is open now. Look for WBCCC on the front page of the forum

Jimmy Huggins    (2010-10-28 05:16:30)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

I've been given it some thought the last couple of days and have came with an update. My last proposal was to do a 2 game a round swiss tournament. I've post it here;pg=3 Look at the bottom of the page for all the details. You can give your input here. Or if you have an amount you can post it there

Wayne Lowrance    (2010-10-28 05:22:18)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

the above url does not seem to work,

Peter Marriott    (2010-10-28 05:44:56)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

it works for me...

Jimmy Huggins    (2010-10-28 05:46:01)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

If not this one works go to pg 3 and its on the bottom

Jimmy Huggins    (2010-10-29 05:21:56)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

Just to let everyone know I've added a standing page and an unique commentary and recap page for fans and players a like a chance to look at all the game a little deeper. I'll invite any of the strong players to comment on the games as they go. As long as they don't give moves away that may affect the game. I thought this would add to unique style of the tournament.

Jimmy Huggins    (2010-10-29 11:40:25)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

The tournament format has been decide. It will be a 2 game a round swiss tournament. Now my working on a pairing system as we spoke. I've been told by garvin gray that he is an official FIDE arbiter who has the latest programs to be used on swiss tournaments. I'll keep that in mind going forward. As everyone here has official rating. It will be my job to work something out with the other players on my forum who don't have ratings. This being a Swiss tournament with having a chance to play with both colors. I should be about to just do subjective pairings and be fine. I have a pretty good idea of were the players stand rating wise. I hope everyone is really for an competitive and enjoyable tournament!


Thibault de Vassal    (2010-10-29 12:27:09)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

That's better than a DE knockout IMO! .. and finally what about the time control?

Garvin Gray    (2010-10-29 12:50:29)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

With it being two games and a swiss, the initial ratings do not matter so much.

Players will get sorted pretty quickly. With using total game points as the first pairing criteria, each score group will have less players, meaning that most of the time there will only be two or three players in each score group, rather than 10 or twelve like in an over the board tournament.

Jimmy Huggins    (2010-10-29 12:54:10)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

well to keep within a 2 month point I thought of 25 days a side with 10 more days after 40 moves. That seems pretty reasonable even with 2 games with the same person. As a interesting side note Kevin Plant has sent an email to ICCF GM Arno Nickle if he would have any interests in playing in this event. I doubt that there not many people who don't know who this very strong corr player is.

Garvin Gray    (2010-10-29 13:38:24)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

Are the 10 days repeating, so after 80 moves the players receive another 10 days?

If not, then I can see major issues with players running out of time in long games, if for the only reason of time difference between countries around the world.

I would advise a time control of something like 14 days plus 2 days per move.

Thibault de Vassal    (2010-10-29 13:58:51)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

I must say that 25 days a side with 10 more days after 40 moves is really frightening to me, even with a single game... but maybe I'm really slow. I agree with Garvin, but of course the nature of the tournament (6 rounds) is in question again then.

Jimmy Huggins    (2010-10-29 14:00:52)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

so 10 days for every 20 moves after move 40?

Jimmy Huggins    (2010-10-29 14:03:40)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

Even that would probably keep it with in something like a year.

Thibault de Vassal    (2010-10-29 14:10:20)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

25 days for 40 moves is too fast, definitely... In my game at Rybkaforum (with SpiderG) I had to take 5 days (maybe more) for a single move sometimes, and unfortunately that was not always to analyze it.

Jimmy Huggins    (2010-10-29 14:18:04)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

well I guess something like 25 days for 30 moves could be possible as only to think that most of the 30 moves could be opening book depending on which opening is choice. Then 10 to 15 days per 20 moves after that. I guess I should follow the time controls here a little closer

Garvin Gray    (2010-10-29 14:33:12)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

The rapid tournaments here use 30 days plus 1 day per move ie person starts with an initial 30 days, then for each move they receive an extra 1 day.

Jimmy Huggins    (2010-10-29 14:33:16)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

I've trying to look at the other players games for the Rybka Forum match. I got the feeling that most players made there moves fairly quickly. I would say there are players who think that 5 days a moves isn't blitz time controls.

Thibault de Vassal    (2010-10-29 14:38:24)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

The problem is: Sometimes (Scott knows it), it is possible to play a complete corr. game [more than 60 moves] in about 30 hours! But sometimes it takes 8 months... Believe me, if I chose 30 days + 1 day/move as the fast time control at FICGS, it is because faster was not possible. And that's why there is a WCH cycle every 6 to 8 months, no more.

Garvin Gray    (2010-10-29 14:42:27)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

Jimmy- I think it is extremely unlikely that any kind of correspondence tournament can finish in one year, unless you have an extremely short time control and are willing to have many games time out. It is just the nature of the beast with players from all over the world.

Also, what Thib means is that a new WCH cycle starts every 8 months, not that the WCH cycle takes 8 months to complete.

Thibault de Vassal    (2010-10-29 14:46:09)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

Sure, sorry... I meant one round takes 6 to 8 months.

Jimmy Huggins    (2010-10-29 14:48:56)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

I see the flexiable of playing something like 30 days + 1 day/move. My intend was to try and make a tournament within say 60 to 70 as a max. But that probably means this is more a tournament for players that make a move 1 to 2 days at a time

Jimmy Huggins    (2010-10-29 14:50:06)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

Sorry quoted per round of 60 to 70 days

Garvin Gray    (2010-10-29 14:54:31)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

Each tournament is slightly different and if a faster time control is used, then players will adjust. Just like playing rapid time controls in otb chess.

It is advertised as a blitz tournament, so of course the time controls will be shorter than the normal type of corro time control. All I have been trying to do is point out issues relating to players competing from different parts of the world.

I am certainly one of those who would be seriously affected by using the 40 move time control you have suggested previously.

I live in Brisbane Australia, so most of my opponents will be at least 4 to 8 hours at least behind me, so it is very common for me to receive moves in the middle of the night, or have a whole batch of moves awaiting me when I wake up.

This can mean that I already start with losing about 8 hours on the clock before I even get to look at a position.

I accept this in the time controls on here because that is just how it is and I am not that disadvantaged as it works the other way where I reply and my opponents are asleep/at work.

But under the 40 move time control posted, I would be severely affected and my only 'crime' would be living in Australia.

Jimmy Huggins    (2010-10-29 14:58:17)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

I would agree with your assignments. I was thinking about 25 days to 30 moves as most of that is possibly opening then 10 to 15 days for 20 moves?

Jimmy Huggins    (2010-10-29 15:11:05)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

I know Wayne has told me that he is trying to draw some of his games. Before my tournament starts. What he is doing is honorable. But I don't wish for others to have to do drastic things to play in this tournament. So I'll try to adjust the best I can.

Daniel Parmet    (2010-10-29 19:58:13)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

of course you talked about this tournament starting in Jan correct? so we all have time to finish some of our games before then.

Jimmy Huggins    (2010-10-30 01:02:41)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

Your right Daniel, some players will have games finish by then. By now I understand what is being talked about, by not having time on the end to have for the endgame. I'm thinking of some kind of adjustment like after the 30 move mark to have something like 15 days per 20 move after that so players don't get kill by the time

Ramil Germanes    (2010-10-30 10:30:27)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

Sir Jimmy: Please include me if I'm qualified. I want to join the tournament. Thanks!

Ramil Germanes    (2010-10-30 10:50:47)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

What will I need to do so I can join the rybka tournament?

Jimmy Huggins    (2010-10-30 11:24:51)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

go to the rybka forum Get a user name and leave me a post on the forum with WBCCC or just sent me a message

Jimmy Huggins    (2010-10-30 11:27:56)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

my user name is Thehug, The tournament will begin in January. Be prepare as the name subjects its going to be a Blitz Corr Tournament. So most players will make a move a day or over other day

Ramil Germanes    (2010-10-30 12:15:28)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

ok thanks!

Ramil Germanes    (2010-10-30 12:29:44)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

@ Sir Jimmy: Already sent you a pm at the rybka forum. My name at rybka forum is "ralunger". Hope you will include me in the tournament. Thanks!

Jimmy Huggins    (2010-10-30 12:35:35)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

Your in I wrote you down

Ramil Germanes    (2010-10-30 12:37:57)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

Thank you sir!

Garvin Gray    (2010-10-30 12:38:50)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

Hope my name has been written down lol

Jimmy Huggins    (2010-10-30 12:41:38)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

It is, I have official list I just edit it on the rybka forum I'll update it today sometime

Thibault de Vassal    (2010-10-30 21:32:50)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

Jimmy, will you apply strict rules during the tournament? What happens if a player suddenly takes 2 days, then 3 days, then 4 days for each move? Will there be a flag applied by the forum software or by the tournament director?

As there may be obvious problems in both cases, I'm really curious to know how you'll handle it. Also will players have a few days of vacation?

Jimmy Huggins    (2010-10-31 13:27:35)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

Your right Thib, there are going to be some risks in playing in this kind of tournament. I had to think about a lot of things. I would love to do a round robin system as this is probably the most flexible of all of them. By a majority was against it because there would just be to many games to play and not enough time to go around for all of them. I to have a lot of ideas to make a swiss system work. I believe with the input I have gotten back. That all the players that are playing are going to play and if they couldn't that wouldn't play. I know as well as you that in the end there really isn't one system that is 100% prefect. And you just have to make adjustments. Dadi Jonsson is working very hard to get the time system to work 100%. So yes the flag will be in. If not then such a tournament probably couldn't happen.

Jimmy Huggins    (2010-11-02 09:18:34)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

Oh ok here is another Time Control proposal. 25 days per side to move 30 and 15 days per side for the next time control. Would move 30 be good to reach the time control? As most books should get you to move 20 or so and would you have enough time. If this blitz corr chess.

Garvin Gray    (2010-11-02 09:25:13)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

The issue is not whether extra time is added after move 30 or 40, that is kinda irrelevant compared to what appears to be a final 15 days after move 30/40. That is the biggest issue and something that needs to be solved before the tournament can go ahead until any reasonable conditions.

Either after move 30/40, there is a re-occuring amount of time just like from move 30 ie 30 moves in 25 days, followed by 30 moves in 25 days repeating, or like we use on here for rapids, 30 moves initial plus 1 move per day increment.

The final time period can not be guillotine for all the reasons previously discussed regarding time zones.

Thibault de Vassal    (2010-11-02 09:33:25)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

I agree with Garvin there.

Jimmy Huggins    (2010-11-02 09:46:20)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

Oh ok I have talk about about 30 days+ 1day as an option. As talking to you two. You have given me a lot of input. I think you Gray are a pretty fast player by most measures so on avg oh long can your games go at this time control? I really don't mind corr games going 2 or 3 months or so. As Thib pointed out some games at this control can go 8 months which to be honest isn't an option. I think I heard Gray say once something about 14days + 2days per move. Would that be a blitz control?

Again one to point out there not going to be a flag or something for taking 4, 5 days. The times will go as usually.

Jimmy Huggins    (2010-11-02 10:05:38)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

I know most of the players that have said they would play usually move pretty fast.

Garvin Gray    (2010-11-02 10:28:10)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

At 30 days plus 1 days, I think about 3 months is a fair average.

I am not sure if I am a fast player or not. I do use most of my time across all games, but that does not mean I am looking at all games all the time.

For just a two game match, I would have no issues with 30 days plus 1 day increment and it would not feel fast to me.

14 days plus 2 days per move I think is a better time control for a few reasons.

It will let the organisers know for certain early who will lose their games on time ie two weeks from when the round starts, so decisions about whether to let them continue or kick those players out can be made earlier.

With a 2 day increment, it does give some opportunity for players to analyse for a bit of time in endgames.

If you are wanting to avoid unnecessary delays, the easiest way to it to have rule that as soon as a game reaches a 6 man tablebase position, the result will be declared.

Thibault de Vassal    (2010-11-02 10:33:17)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

14 days + 2 days / move is much longer than 30 days + 1 day / move. Maybe 20 days + 1 day / move, or 10 days + 1 day / move could be ok... 1 day increment is the strict min. 10 days initial clock is min as well IMO. So a game could last ~180 days at most = 6 months anyway !

Honestly, maybe you should give up the idea that everyone (eg. me) should be able to play, if you think that most players interested are ready to play a really fast corr. time control, maybe you should do it this way but IMO an increment less than 12 hours may lead to many losses on time.

Garvin Gray    (2010-11-02 10:42:21)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

TDV- Honestly, maybe you should give up the idea that everyone (eg. me)

GG- Who is you? in the quote above?

Thibault de Vassal    (2010-11-02 10:44:26)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

You = Jimmy (does the whole sentence mean something? sorry my english still weak :/)

Garvin Gray    (2010-11-02 10:46:48)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

Its alright. Sometimes I just like to clarify matters. In this example, I was not sure if you meant me or Jimmy as you had replied straight after my post and so could have been directing the YOU at me, instead of Jimmy.

Probably the best course of action to avoid confusion in multiple person replying topics is to refer to people by name, rather than just using you or he.


Garvin Gray    (2010-11-02 10:47:06)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

And, I am sure your English is better than my French :P

Jimmy Huggins    (2010-11-02 10:50:48)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

I can always say you have a very honest opinion. I can bet even if you decide not to play. You will be watching with interest. I know players like Wayne Lowrance liked the idea of a little faster controls. Gino, Scott, and David Evans like to play a little bit faster controls. And they will make this a very strong tournament anyway. And yes the add one day per move looks to be the min. It will just be looking at the total time.

Jimmy Huggins    (2010-11-02 10:53:01)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

My above comment was at Thib

Jimmy Huggins    (2010-11-02 15:37:29)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

Your doing a good job Garvin, everyone thought your idea of ending the game at 6 man tablebase positions was great 100%. And you more or less suggested the 2 game a Round Swiss was taken very well to. Maybe I should let you be my TD lol. I think I can let you do my Pairings to if you want. My only question to you is what rating list would be the best to use? As far as the ratings of the Rybka Forum players I'll have to give you my ideal ratings for them.

Wayne Lowrance    (2010-11-02 16:33:06)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

Nice idea Garvin, (6 man). It means a lot of work for some one to check it. Not all players I think have very many six man, including me (about 30 of em). How would that workout ?

Jimmy Huggins    (2010-11-02 16:57:23)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

I don't think this would be as hard as you think. There as 6 man tablebases online that can easily do that. Here an example

Jimmy Huggins    (2010-11-02 16:58:34)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

Sorry for my horrible english sometimes. The above link would work well for it.

Thibault de Vassal    (2010-11-02 20:48:21)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

For 6 man tablebases, there is also:

Wayne Lowrance    (2010-11-02 22:18:30)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

yep, I am aware of both sites. That is not the problem as I see it.
Those sites are good if you have arrived at 6 man positions. The problem occurs far before that during analysis. Example player(a) in deep analysis with his hardware/programs determines that a 6 man tablebase will occur and player (b) with his hardware/program is unable to verify that and thus will object to 6 man ruling as He cannot verify it. Not much time will be saved I am afraid if the game continue until the current position is a 6 man position.
Of course a lot of communication can resolve it for player (b) but that is a big work load for someone. So I am very much in favor of the idea, but do not see clear solution to it.

Garvin Gray    (2010-11-03 11:16:59)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

Wayne, not sure much can be done about the situations you are talking about. I guess they are just how it is when games are being played with tablebases.

I still think my suggestion will knock off some time from each round.

Perhaps, what could occur is that one player claims either for win or draw and the arbiter investigates by asking the other player how they plan to get their desired result.

I know this sounds rather wishy washy instead of being a nice formulated rule, but I am not trying to post a forumulated rule at this stage, until I know if I am going to be person responsible for pairings, being arbiter etc.

Garvin Gray    (2010-11-03 11:17:16)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

By the way Jimmy, you have a pm on rybka forum.

Jimmy Huggins    (2010-11-03 11:47:37)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

Yeah you will be helping me with it. I would say that to make things easier just remember you will be my arbiter. I sent you an PM that will explain somethings. I will change the words to make it easier for everyone to understand

Jimmy Huggins    (2010-11-03 11:59:49)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

All is explained now between my message back to you and I edited what was on the forum. Thank you for you help

Thibault de Vassal    (2010-11-03 17:52:48)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

Finally I added a "last post" link for Garvin & deleted the other thread that could bring some confusion in the discussion...

Wayne Lowrance    (2010-11-03 18:28:57)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

Okey Dokie, Garvin & Jimmy. Sounds good. It will save some time.

Jimmy Huggins    (2010-11-04 13:15:38)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

Garvin I sent you another PM. Maybe you can give me your 2 cents worth

Garvin Gray    (2010-11-05 02:09:05)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

The last pm I got from you was about the order of players and who has entered.

I have received nothing since then.

Jimmy Huggins    (2010-11-06 03:44:55)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

Well Thib it looks like a lot of people like the idea of doing 30days + 1day per move. That may open the door for you to play if you wanted to.

Garvin Gray    (2010-11-06 06:19:34)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum


Possible slight change to start date proposal.

I would like to see the competition either start on December 1 (one month earlier), or on about January 14.

The reason for this is to try and reduce the impact of Christmas. If the competition starts on January 1, games could time out without people even knowing that they started due to being on holidays.

Perhaps starting earlier might be helpful as it means the competition starts while there is the current momentum for it.

But middle January is also good as it will give a chance for the new ficgs ratings to be used.

I think it would also be prudent about a week before the start of round one to personally contact all the participants and get them to confirm they are playing. Only those that confirm their participation will be paired for round one.

Jimmy Huggins    (2010-11-06 07:30:29)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

You make a good point about Christmas and even sometimes people do things on the New Year. I have to probably go with the January 14th idea. If only because I would like to give Dadi as much time as he needs to get the clock system to work. By I will leave a line on the Forum and see what people say. As for the give a week to get play to reply. I had already decide on that. I will be so much easily to do it that way. As to have to repair 2 or 3 times.

Thibault de Vassal    (2010-11-06 15:00:19)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

Hi Jimmy, good news! I'm sure that this format will attract more players.

Mircea Hrubaru    (2010-11-06 15:05:31)
Strong Tournament at Rybka Forum

I am also interested in participating.





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