Playing poker for epoints

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Paul Campanella    (2012-05-11)
Playing poker for e-points

Members of FICGS are able to play chess for e-points but poker challenges are only allowed in "bronze".

Why are members of FICGS not allowed to challenge other members to either "silver" or "gold" poker games?

Paul Campanella    (2012-05-11 04:59:09)
Playing poker for e-points

I personally think that playing poker for e-points should be allowed on FICGS.

It would make things more fun and might make players think twice about making foolish moves because actual money is on the line!

What does everyone else think?

Thibault de Vassal    (2012-05-11 14:06:30)
Playing poker for e-points

I personally agree with you Paul :)

The big problem is that I'd directly go to french prison :/ Unfortunately this is not authorized in France (yet - there is some hope but it will take time anyway)

So unless I move to another country this will not happen before a while...

Paul Campanella    (2012-05-11 15:44:04)
Playing poker for e-points

That is quite unfortunate... hopefully the law in France will change one day!

Peter W. Anderson    (2012-05-12 09:40:47)
Playing poker for e-points

I don't think this is a problem just because of French law. My understanding is that it is illegal to take on-line bets from US citizens regardless of which country is hosting the service. It happens but it is not legal. As e-points can be traded for money, this could be a problem.

On-line gambling is legal in the UK but sone UK companies have been charged under US laws for allowing US citizens to play on their poker sites. Most big UK on-line gambling companies block US citizens from playing at their sites.

So even if French law changes, be very careful Thibault. You would need to check the law of every country of the players.

I know a little bit about this as I have a friend who is hoping to make a lot of money (quite legally!) from on-line poker in the US (but for obvious reasons I can't say how).

Thibault de Vassal    (2012-05-12 13:41:03)
Playing poker for e-points

Epoints system for chess is the same than participating in an OTB chess tournament with an entry fee & prize. I guess (I hope) that this is authorized even in US.

But anyway you're right Peter, it took me much time to be sure of what it was possible to do or not. Actually FICGS could have started about a year earlier without that problem :/

Anyway there are many ways to turn around laws, e.g. if prizes are not money & so on... Maybe I could envisage something like that.

Peter W. Anderson    (2012-05-12 14:34:35)
Playing poker for e-points

Yes, of course, I was being dumb. If the e-points were for prizes as opposed to pots, then I think this would probably be legal in the US.

Thibault de Vassal    (2012-05-12 16:16:06)
Playing poker for e-points

Actually the prize is either Epoints or Money. Maybe there could be Epoints only for poker but it is quite easy to convert it to money by playing chess games so I'm not even sure if it would be legal in France (and it is really hard to know).

Paul Campanella    (2012-05-12 16:48:36)
Playing poker for e-points

I am confused...

if this is the situation...

then why would playing chess for e-points be considered legal but playing poker for e-points be considered illegal?

Paul Campanella    (2012-05-12 16:57:46)
Playing poker for e-points

Is it not all considered "gambling"?

Garvin Gray    (2012-05-12 17:26:45)
Playing poker for e-points


In general parlance, poker is regarded as a gambling game and so the idea that poker is also played in classic tournament fashion, just like every other sport, has never really caught on in legal terms.

The general version is more of the casino style with players joining in whenever they want and leaving whenever they want (or have lost their cash), rather than tournaments where everyone pays an entry fee and there is a winner at the end.

Combined with that is that chess has never been associated as a 'gambling' game or sport.

Remember also that in quite a lot of countries chess is a full recognised sport, or at least mindsport. So in those countries if playing for money in chess was illegal, then so would playing for money in all sports.

Thib- I wonder if playing for epoints in classic tournament fashion is legal, just like in irl poker tournaments?

That could be one option.

Thibault de Vassal    (2012-05-12 23:26:19)
Playing poker for e-points

Actually the problem really exists in the opposite way... You'd be surprised! French departments really tried to discourage me to organize chess tournaments with money prizes, by making comparisons to gambling games! (and actually I also think that the limit is not so clear) - The problem is that there is no clear law on that issue.

I also know that the previous french government (Sarkozy's one) was to try to make it even harder to do that because of the success of some sites that offer skill money games. So I try to follow all this...

Don Groves    (2012-05-13 14:37:24)
Playing poker for e-points

US gambling laws are antiquated (as they are in many areas). Gambling used to be illegal in most states but now nearly every state has gambling due to the rise of Native American casinos on reservation property. Also most states now have lotteries that were never allowed before. Times change faster than laws...

Paul Campanella    (2012-05-13 16:24:34)
Playing poker for e-points

So Thibault... what will happen as of now?

Don Groves    (2012-05-14 05:34:49)
Playing poker for e-points

I think he's already answered that question. He'd rather not go to prison.

Garvin Gray    (2012-05-14 15:43:13)
Playing poker for e-points

Don: no commitment from our Thib then. Oh come on, take one for the team hahahahahaha.

Paul Campanella    (2012-05-14 17:00:28)
Playing poker for e-points

What about playing for some other kind of prizes?

Don Groves    (2012-05-14 22:46:36)
Playing poker for e-points

True, Garvin, many criminal still run their enterprises from prison ;-)





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