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Arnab Sengupta    (2008-05-21)
Help!

Does anybody has some better moves for black in the game between Kramnik-Aronian, Wijk aan Zee 2008, after Kramnik's 25. Nc3 dxc3 26.Qxc3+? somebody help me plz


Ilmars Cirulis    (2008-05-21 17:08:01)
game

Kramnik,V (2799) - Aronian,L (2739) [D43] 1.d4 d5 2.c4 c6 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.Nc3 e6 5.Bg5 h6 6.Bh4 dxc4 7.e4 g5 8.Bg3 b5 9.Be2 Bb7 10.0-0 Nbd7 11.Ne5 Bg7 12.Nxd7 Nxd7 13.Bd6 a6 14.a4 e5 15.Bg4 exd4 16.e5 c5 17.Re1 Nxe5 18.Bxe5 0-0 19.Bxg7 Kxg7 20.Ne2 f5 21.Bh5 f4 22.b4 cxb3 23.Qxb3 Qd5 24.Qh3 Bc8 25.Nc3 dxc3 26.Qxc3+ Qd4 27.Qf3 Ra7 28.axb5 Qf6 29.Qa3 Qb6 30.Qc3+ Kg8 31.Re5 Qf6 32.Qxc5 Rd7 33.h4 gxh4 34.Bg4 Rdd8 35.Bxc8 Rxc8 36.Qd5+ Qf7 37.bxa6 Qxd5 38.Rxd5 Rf7 39.a7 Ra8 40.Rda5 Kh7 41.R1a3 h3 42.gxh3 f3 43.Kh2 Rg7 44.h4 Rg2+ 45.Kh3 Rg7 46.Ra6 Rf7 47.R3a5 Rg7 48.h5 Rf7 49.Kg4 Rg8+ 50.Kh3 Ra8 51.Kg4 Rg8+ 52.Rg6 Ra8 53.Raa6 Raxa7 54.Rxh6+ Kg8 55.Rag6+ Rg7 56.Kxf3 Rxg6 57.Rxg6+ Kf7 58.Rg4 Ra1 59.Kg3 Rh1 60.Rh4 Ra1 61.Rb4 Kg7 62.Rb6 Rg1+ 63.Kf4 Rh1 64.Kg5 Rg1+ 65.Kf5 Rh1 66.h6+ Kh7 67.Ra6 Rf1 68.f4 Rb1 69.Re6 Ra1 70.Rf6 Re1 71.Kg4 Ra1 72.f5 Rg1+ 73.Kf4 Rf1+ 74.Ke5 Re1+ 75.Kd6 Rf1 76.Ke7 Rf2 77.Rf8 Re2+ 78.Kf7 Ra2 79.Rd8 Ra7+ 80.Kf6 Ra1 81.Rd2 Rb1 82.Ra2 Rb3 83.Rh2 Rb1 84.Rh4 Rb8 85.Kg5 Rg8+ 86.Kf4 Ra8 87.Kg5 Rg8+ 88.Kf6 Ra8 89.Re4 Ra1 90.Re8 Ra2 91.Re1 Ra3 92.Rh1 Ra2 93.Kg5 Rg2+ 94.Kf4 Rf2+ 95.Ke4 Re2+ 96.Kf3 Ra2 97.Ke4 Re2+ 98.Kd4 Rd2+ 99.Ke3 Ra2 100.f6 Ra7 101.Rf1 Kg6 102.Ke4 Ra4+ 103.Kd5 Kf7 104.Rh1 Ra5+ 105.Kc4 Ra4+ 106.Kb5 Ra8 107.h7 Rh8 108.Rh6 Rb8+ 109.Kc6 Rc8+ 110.Kd6 1-0


Arnab Sengupta    (2008-05-21 18:21:19)
game

well Cirulis, i know that game...... i dont need the moves played in it....i want to ask if anybody has any better variation in that position.


Ilmars Cirulis    (2008-05-21 18:28:28)
game

Of course, it is not for you, Arnab.
It is for helpers - they need to know game after 26.Qxc3, don't they?


Arnab Sengupta    (2008-05-21 18:34:22)
game

o thanks.....but someone should help me......where is Thibault?


Ilmars Cirulis    (2008-05-21 19:21:42)
game

25.Nc3 dxc3 26.Qxc3 Qd4 27.Qf3 Ra7 (best) 28.axb5 Qf6
28.-- Rf6 is better, according Rybka.


Garvin Gray    (2008-05-21 19:44:20)
hmm

why do you ask for help with this game?


Ilmars Cirulis    (2008-05-21 19:49:19)
hmm

+1


Arnab Sengupta    (2008-05-21 20:04:20)
hmm

well because i'm playing this position in a game.......


Arnab Sengupta    (2008-05-21 21:45:45)
new

how about 28...Bf5?


Garvin Gray    (2008-05-22 15:16:00)
ruling?


well because i'm playing this position in a game.......

-------------------------------

I think this is a bit of a no-no ie asking for the advice of others. My understanding is that the games are meant to be individual, not consultative. So you can not ask for the advice of others.

Thibault? What is your opinion/ruling?



Wolfgang Utesch    (2008-05-22 15:38:20)
Decency

I think, judgement of this behaviour is not a question of ruling but of decency!


Thibault de Vassal    (2008-05-22 16:09:58)
Rules

To ask for an advice is authorized by the rules.


Rodolfo d Ettorre    (2008-05-22 16:15:45)
Game ...

According with Crafty, 27. ... Rb8 is a better move.


Arnab Sengupta    (2008-05-22 17:50:45)
ruling?

Chill guys!!!!!!!!!!! i'm not playing this game in FICGS or any server.....i'm playing it with my brother and we wanted to find some good defense for Balck, thats why i asked for your help!!!! Now if you people have so much problem with it, then i'll take that blame from you.....Whats the use in discussing chess position then???


Thibault de Vassal    (2008-05-22 18:08:10)
ruling

There's no problem, Arnab :) Everyone's free to discuss any position with anybody here. Everyone's choice.


Arnab Sengupta    (2008-05-22 18:23:25)
ruling

Thanks Thibault!


Ilmars Cirulis    (2008-05-23 05:47:01)
27.-- Rb8

It was losing after 28.Qc6, as I remember.


Michael Aigner    (2008-05-23 10:30:13)
White is simply better

Hi Arnab, in my opinion it is too late to look for improvements after move 26. I think white has just the better game (for ever) because of the unsafe black king. Regards Michael


Arnab Sengupta    (2008-05-27 16:53:56)
help

ok! so we came up with this variation- 1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Nf3 c6 5.Bg5 h6 6.Bh4 dxc4 7.e4 g5 8.Bg3 b5 9.Be2 Bb7 10.O-O Nbd7 11.Ne5 Bg7 12.Nxd7 Nxd7 13.Bd6 a6 14.a4 e5 15.Bg4 exd4 16.e5 c5 17.Re1 Nxe5 18.Bxe5 O-O 19.Bxg7 Kxg7 20.Ne2 f5 21.Bh5 f4 22.b4 cxb3 23.Qxb3 Qd5 24.Qh3 Bc8 25.Nc3 dxc3 26.Qxc3+ Qd4 27.Qf3 Ra7 28.axb5 Rf6 29.h3 but now what? what should BLACK play here? Please i need your opinion to finish this variation. Do you think Black has any chance of Drawing the game here?


Arnab Sengupta    (2008-05-27 17:08:39)
Help

Well two moves comes in mind for BLACK 29....Re6 or 29....Rc7 I think both moves holds fort for Black. What say?


Michael Aigner    (2008-05-27 18:35:33)
Sorry but white is going to win

I think black has a maximum 10 % drawing chances in this position. e.g. [Event "Blitz:120'"] [Site "PC"] [Date "????.??.??"] [Round "?"] [White "New game"] [Black "Naum 3.1"] [Result "*"] [PlyCount "65"] [TimeControl "7200"] {256MB, Hiarcs10.ctg, HOME-PC} 1. d4 d5 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. Nf3 c6 5. Bg5 h6 6. Bh4 dxc4 7. e4 g5 8. Bg3 b5 9. Be2 Bb7 10. O-O Nbd7 11. Ne5 Bg7 12. Nxd7 Nxd7 13. Bd6 a6 14. a4 e5 15. Bg4 exd4 16. e5 c5 17. Re1 Nxe5 18. Bxe5 O-O 19. Bxg7 Kxg7 20. Ne2 f5 21. Bh5 f4 22. b4 cxb3 23. Qxb3 Qd5 24. Qh3 Bc8 25. Nc3 dxc3 26. Qxc3+ Qd4 27. Qf3 Ra7 28. axb5 Rf6 29. h3 Qd6 (29... Re6 30. Qa3 Rxe1+ (30... Qd6 31. Rxe6 Bxe6 32. Rd1 Qe5 33. b6 Re7 34. Rc1 g4 35. hxg4 Rd7 36. Qa5 Qd6 37. Qxa6 and White wins) 31. Rxe1 Bf5 32. b6 and White wins) 30. Re8 Be6 31. h4 g4 32. Bxg4 Bf7 33. Rc8 and White is clearly better Regards Michael


Ilmars Cirulis    (2008-06-02 17:00:26)
Another one...

1.d4 d5 2.c4 c6 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.Nc3 e6 5.e3 Nbd7 6.Bd3 dxc4 7.Bxc4 b5 8.Bd3 a6 9.e4 c5 10.e5 cxd4 11.Nxb5 Nxe5 12.Nxe5 axb5 13.O-O Qd5 14.Qe2 Rb8 15.Bg5 h6 16.Bh4 Bd6 17.f4 Kf8!

If not 17.-- Kf8!, white feels good. But Kf8... I can find anything against that. Any idea?

It's just opening analysis. :D